In the interview he gave to Jeune Afrique, the Head of State gave at length his angle of perception of the crisis. While implicitly reiterating his willingness to cling more to power, Faure Gnassingbé did not fail to "demonize" unsurprisingly the National Pan African Party (PNP) of Tikpi Atchadam, the party that has woken up the disputes since August 19. Read!
JA: Togo is going through a period of turbulence for five months. Why and how did we get there?
It is still a little early to have a full understanding of this rather complex movement. I will therefore stick to two observations. The first is the political element that brought the claim, particularly in the international media: constitutional reforms. We have committed them, the proposed text is before the National Assembly and the process will continue. The second observation is more worrying. We are in West Africa, where there is an arc of terrorist crisis that goes from Mali to Lake Chad. When we see in Togo, during demonstrations, people brandishing Kalashnikovs, when we hear imams call to riot in some mosques, when we demand law enforcement to recite verses of the Koran to have life saved , it challenges. Especially when the party at the origin of these demonstrations is of sudden appearance and that its financing circuits are opaque. These disturbing aspects have since been tempered by the joint events held between this party and the opposition, which I welcome, but I do not forget them. They are there.
The objective, of course, was to re-edit a kind of insurrectional scenario.
JA: You are obviously referring to Tikpi Atchadam and his party, the Pan-African National Party, which has a strong presence in the Muslim community of the Tem. Neither you nor the "historical" opposition have seen this phenomenon. Why ?
In fact, before the violent demonstration of August 19 which was a kind of climax, this party had organized fifteen peaceful and supervised demonstrations. Then, suddenly, the claims and the procedure became radicalized. The objective, of course, was to re-edit a kind of insurrectional scenario. What we witnessed then was nothing more than an attempt to seize power by the street. She failed.
JA: The opposition, say, traditional has grafted on this challenge with a classic slogan - the return to the Constitution of 1992 - and another maximalist: your immediate departure from power. Is it also, in your opinion, part of this insurrectional scenario?
I believe that these slogans, which the authors knew very well could not be applied, were brandished to justify the continuation of the demonstrations. Their appearance is oddly concomitant with the tabling of the draft constitutional reform before the Assembly. This text meets the demands of the opposition, the latter has chosen another field: the street. In that sense, yes, his desire to destabilize power was very clear. She has never hidden from it.
This reform project, which must in principle be submitted to referen- dum, what does it say?
Limitation of the number of presidential terms to two times five years. Limitation of the mandate of the deputies. Instauration ...
[13:25, 18/12/2017] Nephtali Ledy: YOUNG AFRICA: Togo has been in turmoil for five months. Why and how did we get there?
FAURE GNASSINGBÉ: It's still a bit early to have a full understanding of this rather complex movement. I will therefore stick to two observations. The first is the political element that brought the claim, particularly in the international media: constitutional reforms. We have committed them, the proposed text is before the National Assembly and the process will continue. The second observation is more worrying. We are in West Africa, where there is an arc of terrorist crisis that goes from Mali to Lake Chad. When we see in Togo, during demonstrations, people brandishing Kalashnikovs, when we hear imams call to riot in some mosques, when we demand law enforcement to recite verses of the Koran to have life saved , it challenges. Especially when the party at the origin of these demonstrations is of sudden appearance and that its financing circuits are opaque. These disturbing aspects have since been tempered by the joint events held between this party and the opposition, which I welcome, but I do not forget them. They are there.
The objective, of course, was to re-edit a kind of insurrectional scenario.
JA: You are obviously referring to Tikpi Atchadam and his party, the Pan-African National Party, which has a strong presence in the Muslim community of the Tem. Neither you nor the "historical" opposition have seen this phenomenon. Why ?
FAURE GNASSINGBÉ: in fact, before the violent demonstration of August 19 which was a kind of climax, this party had organized about fifteen peaceful and supervised demonstrations. Then, suddenly, the claims and the procedure became radicalized. The objective, of course, was to re-edit a kind of insurrectional scenario. What we witnessed then was nothing more than an attempt to seize power by the street. She failed.
JA: The opposition, let's say, traditional is grafted on this contestation with a classic slogan - the return to the 1992 Constitution - and another maximalist: your immediate departure from power. Is it also, in your opinion, part of this insurrectional scenario?
I believe that these slogans, which the authors knew very well could not be applied, were brandished to justify the continuation of the demonstrations. Their appearance is oddly concomitant with the tabling of the draft constitutional reform before the Assembly. This text meets the demands of the opposition, the latter has chosen another field: the street. In that sense, yes, his desire to destabilize power was very clear. She has never hidden from it.
This reform project, which must in principle be submitted to referen- dum, what does it say?
Limitation of the number of presidential terms to two times five years. Limitation of the mandate of the deputies. Establishment of a two-round voting system. A very classic reform, which more brings a supplement of democracy compared to 1992, in the opinion of number of constitutionalists.
Why is a return to the 1992 Constitution unthinkable to you?
This question was emptied by the editors of this Constitution themselves, who explained at a symposium that it was illusory, inappropriate to return to it and that it was necessary to move forward. The 1992 Constitution was a partisan constitution adopted by a single-color assembly. It was rectified in 2002 by another single-color assembly. It was therefore necessary to leave this dichotomy of extremes and to agree on a consensus text.
However, even the episcopal conference of Togo demands the return to the Constitution of 1992!
I believe that the bishops have since poured some water into their mass wine. This late claim of the Episcopal Conference was all the more surprising because it had never been heard before by either the 2006 Dialogue or anywhere else. It was an error of appreciation of the complexity of the situation.
Another personality to have pronounced for a return to what is called here the C-92: Gilchrist Olympio. Would he become your opponent after being your ally?
The reality is simpler. The party of Gilchrist Olympio has meanwhile split, and the majority has joined the ANC of Jean-Pierre Fabre. Most of his own biological family also remained in the opposition. It was his family who put pressure on him to take this position, while announcing his political retirement.
The opposition demands that the constitutional reform be retroactive with regard to the number of mandates. In other words, that you are prevented from representing yourself in 2020. What do you say?
Let's make the reforms, avoid personalizing them. Do not mix the political and legal spheres. Constitutions have for the future, not for the past.
Another claim: the vote of Togolese from abroad. Why do you oppose it?
This is incorrect. I do not have any principled position on this, and that's one of the things we can agree on in dialogue. Just look at the technical aspects.
The demonstrations that have taken place since August have resulted in casualties. How much, according to your count?
I keep thinking about these innocent victims, I'm sorry, we did not need to get there. There were six bullets on the side of the demonstrators and two members of the police lynched and beheaded in Sokode. It is absolutely deplorable. Investigations are underway, and justice will do its job.
The presence of militias, described as self-defense groups, has been noted alongside the police and the army. Do you recognize it?
It is a reality that I deplore but that it is necessary to put in context, that of the first violent demonstrations of the PNP and the multiple provocations which the militants of this party gave themselves. That is what gave birth to these self-defense groups, which are equally reprehensible and we condemn.
You are reproached for having made vindictive remarks in front of the red berets of Tedaja camp in early November. Is it correct?
Listen. I am the chief of the armies. I ask the military not to use their weapons. Two soldiers guarding public buildings were massacred. The least I could do was to sympathize with and promise the military that we would look for the perpetrators relentlessly and by all means to bring them to justice. I did not say anything else. Any responsible head of state would have said the same thing.
A handful of radical imams tried to inflame the spirits by calling for jihad against the army.
Are you satisfied with the behavior of your party, the Unite, during these events?
Absolutely. The Unir has organized large demonstrations calmly, and its leaders have always made responsible remarks.
You seem to discern behind the hardest part of the opposition, in this case Tikpi Atchadam's PNP, the influence of radical Islamist networks. What elements do you have to advance this hypothesis?
I think this hypothesis is realistic. The constituent elements that accredit it exist. The region of Sokodé, cradle of the PNP, is strongly islamized. Weapons circulate. A handful of radical imams are trying to ignite the spirits by launching jihad calls against the army and military families. Two of them were arrested, then released and placed under judicial supervision as part of the proceedings. That said, we must not stigmatize this city or this region. During my recent visit to Sokodé, I received a benevolent, even warm welcome, which proves that its population aspires for peace and rejects the radicalization that leads to violence.
Nine confidence-building measures were taken at the beginning of December by your government to facilitate the opening of a new dialogue with the opposition. This is not the first. What will be the order of the day?
Dialogue is an essential part of our society. Before declining its agenda, it will be necessary to agree on its composition. We have in the opposition parties represented in the Assembly and extra-parliamentary parties: they will have to decide whether they come separately or in coalition. We also have parties that have neither manifested nor claimed and are acting within the institutions. These too have the right to participate. This crisis is political, the dialogue will be a purely political sequence.
There will be a dialogue and a referendum, but no national bis conference.
Dialogue or bis national conference?
Dialogue. All the dialogue. Just the dialogue. There will be no conference.
Will the referendum really take place?
We are required. It is a constitutional provision. It will take place after the dialogue.
When will this one open?
Very quickly regarding its preparatory phase. Before the end of the year holidays.
If the project that you submitted to the Assembly is adopted by referendum, you will be able to represent you in 2020 and then in 2025 and, if you win it, stay in power until 2030. Do you understand that this perspective is unbearable for people? the eyes of your opponents?
I understand their impatience, of course. But the hardships we have had in the past must teach us something essential: the rule of law must be respected. There is no other way to access the supreme office than elections. We must trust the Togolese people and, for that, question them rather than speak for them.
Will you be a candidate in 2020?
I do not fit in this perspective yet. My concern is immediate: to get out of this difficult moment so that the Togolese can find peace and serenity and get back on track, because this crisis has cost our economy dearly - especially to the women traders, who have suffered a lot .
The Presidents of Guinea, Ghana, Ivory Coast, Benin, Nigeria, and others have offered their services as mediators in this crisis. That's not a little too much?
On the contrary. These are all signs of friendship and solidarity with Togo. And all these offers of facilitation take into account our sovereignty and the fact that it is the Togolese who ultimately responsibility for finding a solution. This is essential.
This political crisis forced you to cancel the Africa-Israel summit scheduled for October in Lomé. Have your guests been afraid of insecurity?
No. The decision to cancel this conference was taken by me before the start of the crisis, even if it was announced afterwards. I strongly felt that it was better to explain its merits to my peers, so that its interest in technical cooperation for sustainable development would not be overshadowed by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Will you be able to maintain a growth rate of 5% per year despite the political situation?
This crisis is bad for Togo, the West African country that has invested the most in infrastructure as a percentage of GDP. The private sector has to take over, but the situation does not lend itself to this, particularly because political risk adds to the cost of investments. It is urgent that we leave, and for that, that the dialogue be held. "Dialogue," said Houphouet-Boigny, "is the weapon of the strong. "
Rwanda is still there, in terms of economic policy, a kind of model for you?
A model of success, no doubt.
Dominique Strauss-Kahn advises you in your relations with the IMF. Is it useful?
Absolutely. It has been invaluable in the negotiation phase of our program with the Fund. He is an expert in this field.
And Tony Blair?
The Tony Blair Institute is effective in the field of good governance, as it has done in several English-speaking and French-speaking African countries.
How do you rate the attitude of the international community towards you?
Governments have generally been respectful of our sovereignty because they understand the issues of political stability at the subregional level. I would not say as much about the international media: there was a lot of misinformation and lies on their part. The number of protesters and the victims were outrageously inflated, on the basis of what the social networks conveyed.
And French President Emmanuel Macron? Did you speak in Abidjan at the end of November at the AU-EU summit?
We had a brief exchange during which he expressed the hope that the legislative and local elections scheduled for 2018 will take place in the best climate possible.
A next meeting at the Elysee is it possible?
I am not a plaintiff right now. I prefer to focus on our internal problems first.
Former Presidents Rawlings and Obasanjo both made critical remarks about you. Do you hold them tight?
They have both been explained to me from my side. They have now well integrated the real issues of this crisis.The incident is closed.
At the Unir congress at the end of October, you had this sentence: "Social networks have transformed me from a simple man into a bloodthirsty dictator. What to say?
This is what the Americans call "character assassination". We lend you actions, intentions, remarks that are not yours to the point that, when you read the result, you say to yourself: is it of me that we speak? Still, the
opposition has no lessons in democracy and respect for human rights to give me .
I thought that conquest and the preservation of power could not allow everything, that there were red lines not to be crossed. For me, respect for human life is sacred, absolutely sacred. But if words make sense, a bloody dictator is someone who kills and kills in series. I admit that those who utter such insanities do not measure their scope and I do not have lessons of democracy and respect for human rights to give to the opposition. But this opposition has no more lessons to give me in this matter.
How are you living this crisis?
I am sad for my country. Beyond the display of democratic intentions, what my opponents seek is the capture of power before the end of my current mandate. All this is futile, but the risk of ruining Togo's reputation with the international community and investors is very real. That is why I am determined to uphold the rule of law and protect our economic and social gains for the benefit of all Togolese.
The claim of your immediate departure is a maximalist claim. Is not it rather a negotiation stance?
It is possible, although I am sure that some thought my reversal by force was feasible. This is the problem of our opposition: to set unrealistic demands, to be unable to explain at the bottom line why they are not followed and to be reduced to blaming the government.
You have succeeded your father. Can we, however, speak of alternation?
I believe so, yes. Togo today, all observers, all international institutions recognize it, has little to do with that of yesterday. This change, I did with my party, which has changed, and with Togolese goodwill. If the press is what it is here, free and pugnacious, if the demonstrations of the opposition can proceed without hindrance, it is because there has been decriminalization of the essential supports of the formal democracy.
Yet you are a Gnassingbe, son of Gnassingbe. Impossible to get rid of this dynastic label, to the point that you are finally attributed fifty years to power!
I am the son of Gnassingbé Eyadéma and I am proud of it. Should I change my name to satisfy some? And when I hear my peers who knew him tell me about him with admiration, why should I be ashamed of President Eyadema? This crime of patronymic has no meaning in relation to the political, economic and social changes that Togo has undergone since 2005. When the time comes for electoral campaigns, then we will debate the people with real arguments. For the rest, do not think that I try to hang on to any power in power.
Do you really know what Togolese people think?
Yes. I do not speak much but I listen a lot and have my own information channels. If I placed my current mandate under the sign of the social, it is because I found that poverty had not fallen back enough.
Is a way out of the crisis possible in the short term?
Absolutely. But on one condition: that we understand well that it is impossible to leave aside our institutions and our Constitution to engage in political arrangements of circumstance. With dialogue, which makes it possible to go beyond slogans, the only practicable path in democracy is the elections. Calls for uprising, insurgency, and other extralegal strategies will only waste time, a lot of time. Everyone will pay dearly for it, starting with the very image of our country, which today is considered by international bodies as making enormous economic and societal progress. I fully share the vision of new generation leaders such as Paul Kagame, Alpha Condé or Nana Akufo-Addo, who claim a true political independence, economic but also cultural and mental African nations. I can not imagine for a second that Togo regresses on this path.
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